Clifton CC

Not sure about the yacht - we've seen from recent events that loose talk happens on yachts and leads to all sorts of trouble (then I'm out of touch - I thought yachts were things with sails on, not things with casinos on)...

...but seriously...

It's probably worth mentioning here that this subject has "form". Back when CH first approached us about links with the club, we (ie mainly the committee) went through a process of discussion which lasted, oooooh, it felt like forever, trying to work out what the club was about and what we'd want if we could have it. Various issues complicated and lengthened this discussion but central among them were those of fairness; the notion that any benefit should be for all rather than the few. As a result lines were struck through many ideas simply because they targeted specific groups or types of members or those with specific interests. I think the same issues are involved here - call it politics if you will - and I think there's a danger in this that it prevents agreement on absolutely everything.

Personally (ie not taking any committee line here) I have a few thoughts...:-

* I think it's okay to point more resources at specific groups if there's a good enough reason. For example, young riders. Thinking to the future, the long-term success of the club will depend on getting young people involved. We're still a pretty unfashionable sport (especially the on-road end of it), so we need to work harder to get teenagers on board. Plus, when you're young, money is probably going to be tighter (not always the case I know, but in general).

* I think buying use of facilities/skills/training etc is more useful than buying stuff. Stuff is always problematic - storage, logging in/out, maintenance, insurance etc - and I speak as someone who's got a pile of event-related stuff in our workshop.

* Membership-wise we're knocking on 150 at present and at current rate of growth will clear 200 next year. We're a big club now, and the majority of the membership is pretty active. I think we should be focusing less on expanding membership and more on increasing skills at all levels. This could include skills in competition, skills in coaching, skills in leading/organising/coordinating (in the latter case not because current ride leaders lack skills, but to broaden the base; to give a bigger pool).

* I think we've got all sorts of opportunities to tie in with York St.Johns if we worked on it and if someone was prepared to take a lead in it (I wouldn't even mind doing this myself, but someone else'd have to take on the membership sec job...). A regular winter programme of talks, sharing of info, indoor training, assessment and coaching, sports science, etc..? Stuff you could stick in your diary well in advance and facilities you could rely on getting use of?

Lastly, as you're all aware the successful Cycling Demonstration Town bid means that York has squillions to spend on getting more people cycling. Alongside all the more obvious and direct stuff, I think cycling as a sport has a role to play - it sets challenges, it adds glamour and excitement and gives role models. I think Clifton should be elbowing in on some of the CDT stuff and seeing how we could both benefit and contribute. Which brings with it the consideration that it's not just Clifton's millions we could be thinking about - there could be lots more money out there we could be putting to good use so that we enable good new stuff to happen (while still keeping our millions in the bank for whatever rainy days might be around the corner). Beijing success, 2012 Olympics, CDT money, big club growth... ...these are the good times, let's make the most of them while still remembering there may be less good ones sometime ahead.

Several people have already mentioned coaching and I wanted to add my voice to theirs.

I thought it might be useful to give a perspective on the coaching question from my experience as a member of various rowing clubs, most recently York City RC. [And just to be clear: this is definitely NOT meant to be a criticism of Clifton CC or a suggestion that we should be More Like My Old Rowing Club, just an attempt to share some possibly relevant experience. As a relative newcomer I may also be Just Plain Wrong about what goes on around Clifton.]

Rowing obviously differs from cycling in its reliance on specialist equipment most people have never used before, so unless a club is going to be a parasite feeding on other clubs' members (and a few are...) it has to have some system for attracting and training newcomers from scratch.

I'd like to think that any youngster around York who was inspired by the men's coxless four pulling Gold out of the bag in the last 250m at Beijing could find the club website, get in touch with the captain or secretary and be invited down to have a go one weekend. They would get a basic introduction to rowing and the chance to go out in a 'trainer' boat. If they liked it, they could then join a junior squad which meets at least three times a week, always coached by experienced or qualified (not always both) seniors. If they stuck at it, they could even be unfortunate enough to get coached by me (in which case they will probably soon be sick of tedious stories about Famous Rowers I Met in the Mid-Nineties and the Crazy Things They Did and my unique ability to stall the outboard).

That system is working pretty well at YCRC now and we've had J16 and J18 crews getting wins, duffing up seniors and showing well at national events. But it depends on a few things:

• >There are no professional coaches involved. That's the norm for all but the biggest clubs and universities: most rely on volunteers of varying quality. The regional ARA (=BCF) development officer will organise Seminars, masterclasses etc and the club hosts some but these are infrequent.
  
  >At York currently, the junior coaching team consists of a couple of older guys who devote a huge amount of time to it (and in effect no longer row themselves), plus a larger number of people like me who put in a one or two sessions a month and come to the odd briefing.
  
  >The common factor among the 'full-timers' is having children now or recently rowing at the club. The others are mostly experienced rowers who are no longer competing regularly.
  
  >The club is always trying to get more people to help with coaching and will pay for people to take National coaching awards (I'm still unqualified but soon I will probably have to get a coaching certificate because of insurance needed to cover coaching juniors).

Something that struck me when I joined Clifton was the complete lack of any equivalent structure as far as I can tell. On the one hand that's great: you can join in just as much as you like without being bossed around, told what to do and dragged into some kind of Programme which you must stick to if you want to be considered for Selection (just imagine the club owned all our bikes and we had to prove we were good/committed/pretty enough to use them or we'd be left inside on the turbo trainer...is that why Romero switched sports?)

On the other hand, if you're a newcomer inspired by Cooke/Wiggins/Cameron and you're hoping for some guidance and even a plan, I'm not sure where you'd go. You can join the rides, and everyone is helpful, but it's nobody's particular role to try to develop your potential and build up the club by doing so. (I should be careful, on the MTB side I think it's a bit different).

You could imagine a Clifton where:

• *Coaching positions were part of the club structure
  *the club would pay coaches to get qualified
  *the coaches would provide programmes and advice if asked
  *everyone is still free to race and train where, when and how they want.
  *you could extend the idea to having regular 'coached' sessions for specific skills (like the Intro to Racing sessions this summer)

Then I suppose the questions are:

• *is this something we want to do? Maybe Clifton just isn't that kind of club...
  *if so, would anyone volunteer?
  *if they did, how could the club best support them?
  *if they didn't, how far down the professional route would we be willing to go?

My feeling is that it's worth exploring. And you can justify spending club money on it because it would be a resource from which everyone could benefit, if they wished. Assuming, of course, that they don't know it all already.

(On a related point which maybe illustrates the difference in mindset between Clifton and Random Rowing Club: when I turned up to my first ever TLI race this year, and finally found the club krew, I was really surprised that nobody told me what to do. At any moment I was expecting someone to pipe up and say 'right guys, we know Fury face and his boys are planning to go right from the gun and there's a lot of scratch riders today so I think we should... '. Phil soon put me right: but I can't help thinking that if we *had* had a few team tactics (beyond Don't Be Sick Or Fall Off) we would have kept that shield. Perhaps more a Race Captain than a Coaching thing...)

Tom

Keeping on that train of thought perhaps we could use the money towards
sponsering a Clifton Team ?

Helen

I'd be anti a 'Clifton Team', at least for now. I think money would be better spent on coaching etc that's accessable to everyone.

Hi

Sorry for dredging up an old post - but the tools idea...

In A Level Computing we have to make a program (a fully working near professional one), and one of my ideas that has had preliminary approval is a Libary program for logging the activities of tools hired out, such as the information on the person who borrowed it, the type of tool, how many tools of that kind there is to borrow, when it was taken out, when it was recieved in, if the tools is in correct working order when returned etc

I would be more than happy for my project to be based on this, as it would interest me and would (I think) be a benefit to the club when or if the idea is used.

And I would get a A level to boot...

If the club would be interested, just give me a shout...

P.S Part of the project is research aka user needs, so I would need to find out the user needs, most likly through a short interview.

Just curious really, is that at York college? We had to do something similar to that but was a BTEC National Diploma.

yes it is ... did you have marcus, val , andy or steven?

David wrote:yes it is ... did you have marcus, val , andy or steven?

Nah, I had Tessa, Richard, ed (likes cad and that, goes off topic in lessons), maggie, the canadian woman.

I think I know magge - the short blonde one?

David wrote:I think I know magge - the short blonde one?

Yes, she has a Scottish accent.

I went to Otley to watch the Criterium race and was intrigued by the warm -up races especially the under 8s, under 10s under 12s etc. Most of this child activity seems to be centred around Leeds/Bradford clubs and the Richard Dunn leisure centre.

Not sure how the specifics would work locally but if there are funds I would be in favour of an expanded coaching structure. I know other parents locally who would be interested if York could develop a facility. ?? the club could pursue a dialogue with the Council about a joint project -possibly using a council property for 'off road training' Something along the lines of 'you provide the facility, we'll provide the coaching'?

I am aware that this idea is open to the criticism that it is all very well putting forward ideas but someone has to do it - just thought I'd share. Time/work/family commitments etc. Perhaps a team could take it on?? Alternatively know Willy was looking at 'Go-Ride' accreditation - did this go anywhere?

By the sound of this thread it looks like coaching is coming across as the preferred choice for using club funds.

I am signed up to do the British Cycling level 2 coaching license starting in October finishing in January 2010. I would loved to be involved in coaching youngsters and getting them involved in the club.

As Dr Dave says, I know Willy was looking at "go-ride" so maybe we can get a couple of folk together and starting working up a plan of action. I would be happy to lead this.

If the committee are serious about persuing this then someone can call me on 07500 460887 and we can start talking.

Billy Geraghty

Dr Dave

I to was at Otley, my daughter raced in the U14's. It's a fantastic event and a credit to the town and organising club that its been going for 24 years.

Yep - Lets have a get together and talk about 'participation' and engaging with the younger riders. One Monday evening would be good, maybe we should start a separate post!

I raced in Otley and i like the idea of a younger riders group